MM Monday: Chelidonium

Ready to take your liver health into your own hands? Hang out with us, your hosts Melissa and Bri, as we journey into the world of natural liver remedies you may not be familiar with - Carduus Mar and Chelidonium. Learn about the telltale physical signs associated with these remedies - right-sided headaches, shoulder pain, and more. But we’re not stopping there! We’re also diving into the mind, unveiling how symptoms that indicate a potential need for these remedies include how your moral compass is affected and potentially even being more easily provoked to aggression.

Feeling the squeeze from persistent symptoms like vertigo, a bitter taste in the mouth, or alternating diarrhea and constipation? It's time to turn your attention to your liver health. In today's episode, we're breaking down the often misunderstood Carduus Mar and Chelidonium remedies, renowned for relieving an array of health concerns - including pesky lung problems! We're also shining a spotlight on the importance of individual symptoms over lab tests when it comes to managing your health. So if you've been troubled by symptoms like bad breath, headaches, or pain under the right scapula, this episode is your ticket to unlocking homeopathic answers. Tune in, and let's empower each other to better liver health.

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Transcript

Bri Hurlburt  0:00  

Welcome back to Homeopathy at Home with Melissa. Hey, Melissa.

Melissa Crenshaw  0:04  

Hey Bri. I'm excited to talk about liver remedies again.

Bri Hurlburt  0:08  

Yeah, so we ended up chopping this one into two because we took a good amount of time with Carduus last time. If you have not listened to that, we started going over Carduus Mar and tonight we're going to talk about Chelidonium, both really good liver remedies. We are going to hit on a few other ones but these were lesser known, but really good remedies to try. So let's do it.

Melissa Crenshaw  0:33  

Yeah, so Chelidonium I think is a favorite remedy of mine to use or suggest in menopause. I like to do Chelidonium 6x once or twice per day, especially in menopause, and if it fits. Ladies, not just because you're in menopause now do you need it.  

Bri Hurlburt  0:56  

I was going to ask that actually. 

Melissa Crenshaw  1:01  

Let’s talk about what Chelidonium looks like. 

Bri Hurlburt 1:03

Okay.

Melissa Crenshaw 1:06

Chelidonium is in the poppy family, like the opium family. It is a serious remedy for pain relief. It's another remedy that has a great deal of liver issues, like we already said. It’s got a lot of right sided headaches, right sided shoulder pains, kind of like Sanguinaria. Usually for a right sided headache, especially when it involves the right shoulder, I'm going to think of Sanguinaria first, but when Sanguinaria is not working, we should also consider Chelidonium. 

The root of the word Chelidonium is the swallow. It flowers at the time when the swallows would come nest before they migrated off, so it's called “The Swallow.” More so than Caruus, Chelidonium is a remedy that seems to have major eye symptoms, particularly the right eye.  One of the first areas where we see jaundice is in the whites of the eyes. Everybody knows that Euphrasia is normally what we call eyebright, but this remedy Chelidonium is also known as eyebright because it’s a great eye remedy.

Chelidonium, of course, also has some gallbladder symptoms because we know the liver and the gallbladder are tightly connected. When one is having trouble probably the other one’s having trouble also. It can, again, particularly affect the right shoulder pain, right sided headaches, the right side of the body.  The pathology goes from the liver upwards, so up the right side and in the front, so it can go up the front of the right side of your body and into the back of the right scapula. Carduus Marianus is more across, right to left. 

Do you want to tell us about the mental emotional picture?

Bri Hurlburt  3:18  

Yes. This one has more mentals than Carduus.  If you remember last time, there was not a big mental picture. But this one has more. 

George Vithoulkas has done a lot for bringing out the mental of the Chelidonium picture. He pointed to the fact that Chelidonium is very down to earth but forceful and aggressive. There is just no messing around. They may be business people and planners, as opposed to Lycopodium which we talked about last time is one of the first liver remedies we think of.  Lycopodium is a more intellectual, much more practical person. But there are some similarities, of course, because they're both good liver remedies. 

Chelidonium is just very forceful in the way they go about their life. If things do go wrong, they think they have just wrecked their life beyond repair. They have a level of self awareness that they recognize they have impacted or ruined their own health. So they might say, “I've ruined my health. I've wrecked it.”  Because the liver does affect so much in your body, it might really seem that way. These people sometimes have a tendency to be violent. It says in the Materia Medica … So this might be intense, but desires to beat their children. We've talked about those feelings before.  They might not actually ever do that, but might feel like they want to. There is that violent aggressive side to Chelidonium. 

There are some more physicals here, and then the Materia Medica does have a lot, too, but it also affects the spleen and the kidneys.  There may be a thick yellow coating to the tongue, with the edges that are red, so you might see the imprints of their teeth. They like drinks really hot, almost boiling. They have a relationship with cheese that can either be averse to it, it aggravates them, or they could love it, but it aggravates them, like their body doesn't agree with it.  

They might be very constipated, may have clay colored, white, or bright yellow stools.  That's similar to Carduus. Diarrhea, often at night. Referred pains up into the right shoulder, meaning it's moving up behind the right scapula. Pains that go up, even into the head, into the right eye. 

Chelidonium people typically have a very strong sense of right and wrong. There's not a lot of emotional analyzing. It's black and white.  It’s right or wrong, not a lot of gray areas, which also means they want like black and white information about their health. They have this delusion that they ruined it and that is a big keynote. So if you hear that, if it's you or you're taking a case, and they’re really set on like “I've ruined my health, I've done this to myself,” think Chelidonium.

It's worse with changing weather.  A lot of symptoms are worse at 4 PM or 4AM. They might have dreams about death and have a heavy, dragging feeling. 

There is a little bit more about the liver cleansing.  Do you want me to finish this part, Melissa, or do you want to take over?

Melissa Crenshaw  7:18  

Go ahead. Yeah, and then I'll pick up.

Bri Hurlburt 7:22  

Okay, so like we said before, this is pretty standard information we've already mentioned, but it's a good liver cleanser, a big liver detoxing remedy. And when we say detox, we're not talking about detox like when you use herbal tinctures or other things that are pulling things out of your body. We are meaning the homeopathic form stimulates your liver to detox properly, so helping it to function as it should because the liver is a detoxing organ.

All of the symptoms are liverish in general.  It’s a more aggressive and forceful remedy than Carduus. Not that you have to worry about using Chelidonium but Carduus we just know is really, really gentle. A keynote is that violent side. They can be really skeptical. And so consider that when you think of Chelidonium

Melissa Crenshaw  8:25  

Thank you for that. Yeah. We talked in the beginning of Carduus, so the last episode, about big liver remedies. I just want to touch on, we're not going to go through and break down all of the liver remedies like we did with Carduus and Chelidonium, but I want to touch on some other ideas, things that you can read in your Materia Medica. 

The liver salts.  Liver salts are Nat sulph and Mag sulph.  Mag sulph is like Epsom salts.  And Nux vomica, we already said, is a big liver remedy. Mag mur is a very important liver remedy and you can go read it. Phosphorus is generally considered a left-sided remedy, but it has a huge number of liver symptoms as part of its picture. Sulphur is the number one remedy probably just for detoxing anyway. China will be affecting every single organ, so it has liver, gallbladder, pancreas, spleen, stomach and digestive conditions. It could touch all those things. And then, like we already mentioned, Lycopodium and Sepia. 

The liver is so fundamental. If you've got a good, healthy liver, then there's not much else that’s going to go wrong in your body. That's why so much of the world today is focused on liver, liver detox, and making sure that the liver is healthy. We can see that homeopathy is excellent at keeping the liver healthy. 

Remember, Carduus is the gentle one and Chelidonium is more aggressive. If you want to look at the constitutional pictures, that's kind of what we're talking about there with gentle and aggressive. If you want the tissue salts, the cell salts, then you can read about those, like we said.  If you want to do a liver clean out, you can do that. Epsom salts and lemon juice and olive oil.  That's an idea of something that you can do. You can take an Epsom salt bath, which I try so hard to make a habit and I can't get into the habit.  I want to make it a habit to take an Epsom salt bath. I would love to do it every single night, but at least a few times a week, we should be doing it.

Bri Hurlburt  11:02  

I do take baths a few times a week, usually.

Melissa Crenshaw  11:06  

You guys, I know it's become very popular in the last several years to redo your bathroom and take your bathtub out and just have a shower, or they're building brand new houses with no bathtub. I think that is incredibly … What's a nice word?

Bri Hurlburt 11:27

Silly.

Melissa Crenshaw 11:28

Okay. Yes.  Y’all, we need to be taking baths.  We really do. Taking showers all the time is not enough.  They're good, especially if you do that ... I don't know what it's called.  The cold therapy, where you take a cold shower. That can be really healthy.

Bri Hurlburt  11:45  

I know, I can't do it yet.

Melissa Crenshaw  11:49  

I can’t do it either.  But taking an Epsom salt bath is super important. I don't personally think that it's enough to just soak your feet in hot Epsom salt. I think that's okay if that's all you can do but we need to be taking baths. And not just to detox your liver. There's so many things.  When you sit in a bath, just the relaxation, the heat, the Epsom salts and all that they're doing in the body. I'm not a bath expert, but all the things. I just know it's detoxing.

Bri Hurlburt 12:24  

I did want to just throw in, too.  It made me think that because I was talking to a friend who's pregnant. She had cholestasis of the liver with her first baby, and is experiencing the symptoms again with her second. I am not saying that this will get rid of that, of ICP or cholestasis, any of the remedies, but what I am helping her with is managing some of those symptoms. Because if you're pregnant or you know someone who is and has dealt with, it can be extremely miserable because you're itchy all the time. There are things you can do to support your body during that so it's not so miserable. And these are really great remedy options. 

There are several.  Any of the ones that Melissa mentioned as the big liver remedies, too. Obviously pregnant, you probably want to work with a homeopath, but just know that I think a lot of times we feel like we're just left up. You can't take a lot when you're pregnant. You can't take a lot of medications, I mean.  Just something to consider. It may help you rest well.  There are teas you can drink safely and things you can do to help with that. 

Melissa Crenshaw  13:39  

Just because you brought up pregnancy, the pregnancy cell salts program, which many homeopaths put out a version. I have mine. I cannot tell you how many women use that with their subsequent baby. So they did not use it before and now they've used it this time and they're like, the difference. There's a lot less or no nausea/morning sickness. Their energy is so much better. Their skin is so much better. They're like, “This is amazing.” And it's the cell salts during pregnancy that just strengthen you. Anyway, we're going to do a pregnancy, labor and delivery course. I know y’all have been hearing us say that. We're going to do it.

Bri Hurlburt  14:24  

We will.  We’re going to.

Melissa Crenshaw 14:26

We are.

Bri Hurlburt 14:27

There's a lot going on here. 

Do we want to go over a little bit of the Materia Medica?

Melissa Crenshaw  14:36  

Yeah.  Were there some things in there that we didn't touch on?

Bri Hurlburt  14:39  

There were a couple of things that I saw similar to Carduus that are also in Chelidonium so it made me just stop and consider some things that you might be experiencing that you would not have thought liver only because up until a few years ago I would never … I just wouldn’t correlate those two things with liver. 

Some things I saw just across the board on both of those remedies that we looked at this time were vertigo, dizziness. I would not have thought that.  The burning or bitter taste in mouth, like just a bad, bad breath, but like a metallic or bitter taste in your mouth. That was one of them. The alternating diarrhea and constipation, and then the light colored, the color of the stool. That was across the board also. 

Both have the headaches. The chilliness.  Both of the remedies also mentioned lung issues accompanying liver issues, so I thought that was interesting. That heaviness. And the eyes. I don't know.  Maybe we did mention it for this one, but the yellowing of the eyes, of the whites of the eyes, and you might have thick discharge from the eyes. 

The pain under or right beneath the right scapula. I don't know that I ever would think that could be my liver. I just didn't know that. Maybe you listen to this and you're like, “Of course, that's what that is.” I mean, of all the organs in my body I would not think liver as something that could be experiencing pain. 

Melissa Crenshaw 16:30

Oh, yeah. 

Bri Hurlburt 16:32

I don't know if any of those were new but I thought those were, just to reiterate, if you are experiencing those symptoms, consider some of the liver remedies, whether it's Chelidonium, or one of the other ones you mentioned. It might be your liver. 

Melissa Crenshaw  16:49  

Yup.  Headaches. I mean, really when I think back, as I've learned now in these last many years of doing this, when I think back into my 20s, I was having liver symptoms,

Bri Hurlburt  17:05  

Right. I think I was too, I just didn't know. I just would never have linked that.

Melissa Crenshaw  17:12  

When you think about … When you mentioned bad breath? Well, what are we going to do if we have bad breath? We go to the dentist or the doctor or whatever. I mean, you're brushing your teeth and you're flossing and you're doing all the things but you still have bad breath, then you go to the doctor. What are they going to tell you to do? What is their answer? I don't know. 

Bri Hurlburt 17:40

I don't know. But usually do think ENT.  You don't think liver. 

Melissa Crenshaw 17:45

Yeah.  So my point is that they're always going to prescribe or look at the outside.  They're going to look at the actual organ that's being affected, like we talked about with Carduus. If your skin is itchy all over, you're going to go to the dermatologist and they’re going to give you a steroid or something to stop the itchiness rather than look at is this a liver issue?  That's where you know naturopathic doctors and herbalists and these people that dig deeper.

Bri Hurlburt  18:17  

And I thought it was interesting because I did get a liver panel done, like a blood test done, when I was really itchy. And everything looked “normal.”

Melissa Crenshaw 18:33

Interesting. 

Bri Hurlburt 18:35

I don't know how everybody feels about it, but I know we've seen the standard of American normal labs changing, so it's really hard to know. What's considered normal in America is not necessarily healthy normal. I'm just even curious would these things all show up on bloodwork? Which is another reason why I think homeopathy is just such a beautiful method and modality because if you look at your symptoms, even if you don't know for sure it's liver, even if all the liver panels come back clear, it still could be outside things affecting your detox system.

Melissa Crenshaw  19:20  

Like you, that's why I love homeopathy. I don't have to have any tests to tell me what remedy to take. It's the symptoms. I can't tell you how often somebody says, “Oh, I have a UTI from tests. I went to the doctor for a normal checkup and they said the tests say I have a UTI, but I have no symptoms,” and I'm like so I can be walking around with a UTI now for 16 years, because I haven't been to the doctor in 16 years, and not know?  Or thyroid.  They'll say, “My thyroid numbers are terrible, but I have no symptoms.” Or they'll say I have all of these thyroid symptoms but my thyroid numbers are normal. And then I just think what is happening? I don't have to have any of that. I don't need any tests. We're just going to use the symptoms.

Bri Hurlburt  20:10  

And oftentimes it's nice to not have anything, any diagnoses or any confirmation that everything's normal, because then you don't have any of the bias. You can think more objectively that way. 

Melissa Crenshaw 20:24

I love it. 

Bri Hurlburt 20:25

Thank you again, Melissa. This was so good. I hope this has been helpful to you guys.

Melissa Crenshaw  20:31  

Yep. I love talking about liver and I hope that you will share this.  Write us a review. Find us on melissacrenshaw.com.  Book a chronic consult if you think you have liver issues. Both of us take consults.  You can find all that information on melissacrenshaw.com under Make Appointment tab, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.