Healing from Within for Lasting Marital Health

Discovering the courage to confront and transform one's darkest behaviors is a journey Cass Morrow knows all too well. As a man who has transitioned from being an abusive partner to a source of inspiration for others struggling to improve their marriages, Cass shares his compelling story with us, revealing a life-changing encounter with a restraining order and probation that marked the beginning of his new path. He candidly discusses the hurdles that many men face, such as anger, depression, and anxiety, and how these can cause turmoil in relationships. His narrative is one of hope, emphasizing the creation of a safe and peaceful home life.

Childhood trauma casts long shadows, affecting adult behaviors in ways we can't always see. His reflection on a tumultuous upbringing under a narcissistic father uncovers the roots of his anger and the eventual cultivation of self-awareness. Our dialogue journeys through the potential of homeopathic remedies like Nux vomica and Lycopodium, but doesn't stop there. We underscore the importance of therapy and a holistic approach to address deep-seated issues, such as hormone imbalances and early developmental needs, to help individuals break free from the cycle of trauma.

We wrap our heartfelt discussion with insights into the profound impact of mentorship and specialized programs that guide men through the trials of marriage, helping to avert the patterns that could culminate in divorce. It's a conversation that brings to light the essential role of both partners in committing to personal growth, rekindling intimacy, and the transformative power of community and faith in overcoming addiction and ADHD. Join us for a profound exploration into not just surviving, but thriving in relationships, and find the support to navigate the complex tapestry of marriage and personal development.

FIND ME!

Chapters

• 0:00 Transforming Toxic Relationships
• 8:42 Men's Childhood Trauma
• 15:56 Overcoming Relationship Challenges and Restoring Intimacy
• 23:10 Addressing Communication and Building Healthy Relationships
• 33:06 ADHD, Addiction, and Marriage Connection
• 40:34 Book Title and Author Discussion

Transcript

Bri Hurlburt  0:00  

Welcome back to Homeopathy at Home with Melissa. Hey Melissa. 

Melissa Crenshaw  0:04  

Hey Bri. Great to see you.

Bri Hurlburt  0:05  

Always great to be here. Today we have another special guest. Melissa has actually spoken with them much more than I, but we are really excited. We're going to mix a different modality, I guess you could call it, in with homeopathy tonight and want to offer something to you all that will hopefully be encouraging, and also encourage you in your journey with homeopathy. 

Melissa Crenshaw  0:34  

Absolutely.  I just want to welcome you, Cass.  Cass Morrow.  Just tell us all about you, your story, what you do, how you can help our listeners. I am highly intrigued by just what you do. I've been watching your videos on Instagram and I love your stories. I would love for you just to tell us all about you.

Cass Morrow  0:57  

Hi, thanks for having me on, Melissa, Bri. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's exciting to be here. Before I get into it, I just want to say I'm super excited. I've listened to your show and I love the way that you guys bring in these remedies. I wish I would have had them.  When you hear my story, I think you're going to know why. 

Well, my story.  Maybe it's easier to just let it come right out. I am known for saving my incredibly toxic, abusive marriage. I was the abuser one.  You heard me right. The abuser one. I abused my wife emotionally heavily.  Physically.  Sexually assaulted her.  I had a restraining order. We separated seven times. I was a bad, bad man. All I knew was anger, what I call anger binges.  Just daily fights and just scream at her for days on end. 

At one point, I was hit with a restraining order for assaulting her and a year of probation, and it was time to start making some changes. I had no idea that there was a better way actually.  You don't know what you don't know. I'm not justifying it. Certainly I've done the work, which I can back it up.  It's been quite a wild ride, but now we're on top of the world.  We joke. My name actually used to be Ryan. I'm Cass.  Ryan was the guy who couldn't get any action because he was such a jerk, such an A-hole.  And Cass is the wonderful loving husband, father, and now leader in life. And that's what I do. I teach men how to do the same. Whether they're as bad as I am, which is typically not the case.  They're not ready to move forward, usually, till they hit the rock bottom. Or, you know, they're just roommates at home and they want to reignite the passion. 

I found it's all boiling down to the same sorts of things, but mostly safety. Safety trust, and showing up in a way that there's peace in the home. I think that a lot of people don't realize how showing up the way that we're taught.  A lot of men. they show up thinking, “Well, I don't hit her so I must not be that bad. I'm doing my job. I'm a provider so I must be doing a great job.” And then they'll start to get frustrated, get angry. It's a lot of what I struggled with obviously.  They'll start to have the highs and the lows with depression and anxiety, insecurities. And then they can go super, super excited and passionate, and that's the love bombing.  I also am a managing severe narcissist so that's something I have to take care of every day. My wife helps me a little bit now but mostly I've got it in check. 

Libido is a big thing. I've learned that it's not just about reigniting the spark. There's a whole lot of underlying things that happen for a woman in marriage.  I just teach men how to show up so they can reignite this peace, partnership, and passion in their marriage. 

Bri Hurlburt  3:48  

Okay, so I do have a couple of questions already. And all of our listeners do know that I’m the question asker so I have a couple ones.  First of all, the new name thing sounds very Bible-y. Are you a Christian and is that where you got that concept? Or is that something not at all related?

Cass Morrow  4:08  

We are Christians. I came into Christianity with my wife. The first lesson going to church was the message on anger. I thought you could learn. I wasn't even anywhere near my growth phase yet. No, we just changed my name.  Cass was my middle name.  It was actually changed at birth … not at birth, sorry. A few years later, I was adopted by my father who's, I believe, a severe narcissist.  I just thought, “You know what? I'm just not that guy anymore.” So we stopped making fun of the situation and being the same guy and just made fun of that guy.   Now on our podcast, for example, we just laugh about Ryan.  But no, nothing to do with.

Bri Hurlburt  4:52  

I love that whole perspective because that is a really good picture of gospel change, right? Like the old man and a new man. I mean, that's a very extreme picture that you don't get to see very much. But I wonder if a lot more people could find that complete freedom and life change, where you know, the culture of people are always tied to their past, like we're always recovering, which to some degree I don't disagree with, but I love that obvious picture of that's an old guy.  I'm not that guy anymore. That's really cool.

Cass Morrow  5:33  

Thank you.  I really do believe it.  You have to embrace who you want to be and where you're going. We're not strangers to hearing this.  Think about entrepreneurs. We hear it all the time. Business coaches will talk about it all the time.  But in relationship, we do.  We get tied to the past. And I just believe, again, if you don't know how to move your wife, your family, your future to the future, you're not going to have a future.  You're going to stay there. So yeah, get on with it, folks.

Bri Hurlburt  5:58  

I have another question, too, and maybe this is really personal. So feel free to be like I refuse to say.  

Cass Morrow 6:05

I’ll say anything.

Bri Hurlburt 6:07

Okay, so I'm thinking of Ryan.  Is that the old guy?

Cass Morrow 6:11

Yup.

Bri Hurlburt 6:12

Okay. So that guy, I would say I have not met a person like him who was not already walking into marriage with a whole bunch of pain, history, maybe trauma as a child. And so obviously Melissa and I are thinking of homeopathic remedies and how they can support this process of healing. I was wondering if you could tell us about that. I'm thinking if I had met a person, then what would I have been like? How can we help Ryan? How can we help that guy? I mean, there are remedies even that talk about the lack of nurturing from the mom and how that affects a person or if there's some kind of trauma, sexual trauma, abuse as a child that's not processed, and how remedies can even work really deeply to help work through that healing process. Do you mind sharing about what, and maybe a shortened version of what did that look like before to create who Ryan was?

Cass Morrow  7:20  

Yeah, absolutely. And also, I can't wait to hear what you've got in store because if you could make it easier, fast forward 14 years of therapy, uncovering the traumas. I always describe it with this line. I could talk about licking toilets to prove they're clean all day long. That doesn't do anything for me. Just keeps me in the past. 

Yeah, there was a lot of trouble.  My dad is a narcissist. I don't think my mom is.  I think she's just super selfish. The earliest memories I have of my mom are her yelling at us. My dad came to my life at five.  My biological father I spoke to years later as an adult.  There wasn't really much there. I’m sure there's abandonment tied to that, plus my adoptive father not being around. I saw them fight every single day. It was just an ugly thing. 

I was speaking to somebody this morning at the gym. You know, you don't always know you were abused if you weren't punched, if you weren't hit, if you weren't beat up. He was also saying the same.  We had no idea. All I knew was fighting. And by the time I met my wife, she was like, “Do you have an anger problem?” I said to her … this is my expression, “Nope. If you run your shopping cart in front of me and hit me in the side, and you do it on purpose, I'll call you a name. But otherwise, I don't have an anger problem.” I literally had no idea that I did. It was just I was banging my shopping cart at everybody every day. 

And yeah, I did a lot of therapy.  I did a lot of reflection. Mostly, I think, the normal victimizing yourself.  Trying to figure out what you could do better, but you never really can get out of the cycle. I'd be very interested, and I'm sure you've got lots of remedies for this stuff, but the insecurities from never feeling good enough, never feeling great, which is all really our anxiety. Right? I don't know that I would say I was suffering from depression. I was really good at always maintaining the positivity, but a lot of my men ride the wave when I work with them. 

I think that it definitely stemmed, everything stemmed from childhood. When they say narcissism was … Well, they don't know where it comes from. Are you born with it? Can you be raised with it? Or to it? They don't really know yet. I believe, hands down, I was taught to be a narcissist.  Hands down.  And then all these other things that we think of as normal red flags, long before narcissism hit the radar for everybody in the last few years. I think that's the stuff that people go to therapy for.  14 years.  We worked with some pretty big names for therapists out there. I don't want to say who they are because I don't want to make it sound like they're bad. They're wonderful. We use some of their tools. But it didn't do anything. You know?

Bri Hurlburt  10:06  

So for the men that are starting work with Cass, or going into this, who haven't become the new guy yet with, I'm hearing, emotional suppression, insecurity, anxiety, but masked as arrogance and narcissism a lot of times, right? Like it comes out aggressive.  

Cass Morrow 10:27

Anger. Rage. 

Bri Hurlburt 10:29

Anger.  Rage.  Okay. What are remedies that come to mind for you, Melissa, with those symptoms? 

Melissa Crenshaw  10:37  

So, you know, Nux vomica, I think, is just a huge one. It's a huge remedy for men, especially when there's anger and gut issues. Don't most of our men have the gut issues because they've got all the stress and the anger and then it ties in with the gut. 

Insecurity is most likely, or a big one for insecurity is Lycopodium.  For our listeners who have been listening for a long time, you know homeopathy, you know what we're talking about. For anybody brand new, we have a whole podcast on abuse. That podcast kept coming back to my mind. I actually went and pulled it up to see if I could pull anything from that. But you guys, if you’ve come from a place like Cass came from, then you might want to go back and listen to the abuse podcast.  We really get in depth about remedies for abuse. 

Bri Hurlburt  11:38  

I think we even discuss neglect in there. What else were you going to say because you might say this one, too.

Melissa Crenshaw  11:48  

That victim. I heard the word victim.  Victim mindset. Staphysagria is our victim remedy. 

And then depression and anxiety. Ignatia tends to be just a top choice for depression and anxiety, but if you've got anxiety with panic attacks, then it's Aconite. 

Also for men, Aurum met. Aurum metallicum for depression.  The Aurum metallicum man, he feels this heavy weight on him to provide. He's got to provide for the family. He's also usually somebody really big in the community that wants to provide so it brings depression.  It weighs him down. That's kind of the Aurum met picture. What were you thinking, Bri?

Bri Hurlburt  12:40  

All of those. Aurum met, too, I know can help with men … well, with anyone, but especially men hormone balance, which may play into some of the behaviors. We talked about Lac caninum, which I think of, not necessarily in your case Cass, but in other men who were not cared for. So this is prior to, if you're not receiving nurturing as a child, what that can do as you develop.

And to clarify, if you're new to homeopathy, the remedies in these cases, and Melissa, you can totally correct me if I'm saying this weird, but what I've seen is they support the processing of these. You do still need, in my opinion, other things like a therapist, counseling, whatever other things that you're using as places to process these areas. But what I've seen, and I've seen it happen with clients of mine is emotional suppression brings out these emotions that maybe you didn't recognize you have not been feeling or helps you manage them in a healthy way rather than outbursts of anger and rage. You're feeling maybe like you want to cry, or you need to go for a walk or you're processing in a healthier way. I've seen that happen with some of my clients mentioning this, “These things are coming up, these things that I didn't realize,” like memories they're thinking about. I do think you should have other methods of support. What do you think about that?

Melissa Crenshaw  14:19  

What I'm trying to teach my boys right now is you need to know how to recognize the emotions that you're feeling and then what to do with those. I don't know how to teach. I don't know how to raise a man. I'm not a man. I don’t know how to teach them how.  

Cass, my question was what was the catalyst? What changed? What made you and Kathryn get it together and change? What happened? 

Cass Morrow  14:45  

Well, there would be different steps there.  Actually, our timelines are quite different. I was court mandated to anger management. And I had already done at that point 12 years of therapy. And I think at that point, we had seen a life coach, as well, together. Actually I could be wrong on the life coach. Maybe that was later. The court mandated anger management. And the first thing that happened for me was being in a room full of men who were all in a lot of trouble for what they had done in their anger. I told my story first, because I'm not afraid to talk, so I just started speaking. And I thought, “Great. Kate’s done.  Solve my problem.  Good.”  And then a bunch of men told their story. And I realized they were all victims. And I realized then what I sounded like.

I've always been able to sort of reflect it back part, kind of get things moving. I just never had really done it with a relationship. I think it was more like business or working out or whatever. And so that would be like the start of my mindset. But then it was a long journey.  First, I’m not allowed to yell, so I had to really keep it together or I’m going to jail. Because the next thing that happens is, if I push her and then I get triggered, or whatever. So that started at all. And then the next couple of years, it was a lot of showing up, realizing that I need to create fun instead of, you know … Pain is the best way to put it. I remember looking at Kathryn going, “This is so cool. We're fighting every three days.” And she was like, “That's not normal.” But for me, that was already 50% better than I've ever seen in my life.  A little more actually, so I was really, really excited. 

And then kept on going.  Now I’m reading a ton of books. By then, for sure, we've had that life coach.  We're not really connecting a lot.  I'm doing a lot better. And I'm thinking we're connecting. Then I later found out that … Well, I made a move on Kathryn and she just said, “No, not happening.” And I got mad. I was like, “I want to use this thing.”  Anyway, she sat me down gently and said, “I'm not in love. I'm not attracted. I'm settling and only here to honor my oath and my commitment under God.”  And so I really lost my poop for about three days. And then I clicked and said, “Well, I guess I need to learn a whole lot more if she's not interested and she's going to coast.” And really, she didn't want to leave the kids with me. What if I went backwards? She didn't trust me. 

So from there, I hired way more coaches. I read way more books. I beat up any resources I could find and started trying things, putting things into a system.  Started helping other men so that I could learn it faster. And then, yeah, somewhere in there I asked her to join me. I said, “Come on.  The old guy’s gone.” So she started doing her learning and her courses and here we are, kicking butt and taking names. 

Melissa Crenshaw  17:35  

I love it.  What I heard there, and that I hear very often in my clinic, is the low libido.  What I heard was no, no libido. 

Cass Morrow 17:44

No.  It was no libido.

Melissa Crenshaw 17:47

So I hear low libido and I hear no libido. And my question to these women in my clinic is how's your relationship with your husband? Because if the relationship is terrible, then I'm not trying to fix your hormones. I'm trying to help you emotionally. But yeah, you still got to do some work.  There's still going to be work to be done. But if it's just a hormone issue, like she's like, “I love him and I want to honor him and please him, but it's not there,” then that's a hormone issue. That’s Sepia usually.  Sepia would be our first go to for that. 

Sepia’s a great remedy for women who just cannot stand their husbands and it's not because of abuse. It usually happens after the birth of a baby. Their hormones change, and they are just turned off and they're like, “You disgust me.” This is a hormone issue. What are you thinking, Bri?  Anything? What else do you hear from women?

Bri Hurlburt  18:52  

No, I think that's a big one. I would say Sepia overall.  We're talking when there's not obvious reasons why your libido is low, or you're not liking him. This is maybe not in your case. But yeah, I think Sepia is one of my favorites. Personally, I really like Sepia and  I see it work very well. I'm trying to think of another one. I know there's another one that's on the tip of my tongue.

Cass Morrow  19:20  

I have an idea we could run through because I think there are stages to this and you might have something for men prior to her with your hormones. The way I tried to teach men is first of all, a woman doesn't use sex as a weapon. She's not withholding. I know that this sort of thing can happen but typically he has presented these expectations throughout the marriage. Now we've lost the safety. She's been pouting. He's been frustrated.  He's been angry. So all this other relationship stuff that Melissa was talking about. That's all there first, okay? So if you take care of that, and you have no expectations.  She doesn't have to submit. Now he wants her to want to desire. Now, she might not, in which case might be the hormones that you're talking about. But prior to that, there is this whole gap for men where they finally have the mindset of, “Well, she doesn't owe me sex because I pay the bills. I'm an adult. I need to pay the bills.” That's not the term. But a lot of times men get … well, impatient would be a good word but that's not probably the word to use to describe what you can help with potentially. But men get really, “I'm doing such a good job. Why is this not working?”

Bri Hurlburt  20:32  

Like entitled to some degree? 

Cass Morrow  20:35  

That's maybe a good way to put it. Because it's not entitled.  I work very hard to teach men that the entitlement needs to disappear. In fact, it's a massive turn-on for women when there is no entitlement to her vagina, right? But when he is … We say rising up in my program, so he's rising up and he's frustrated, because he doesn't get it. Why is it not working yet? Why is it not going at the rate? There's all kinds of reasons we can talk about but I wonder if you have something or something's coming to you as I'm discussing this, that might be something we can suggest to them?

Bri Hurlburt  21:09  

Honestly, I don't know that I would think of a remedy there because what comes to my mind is, at that point, if you have a really healthy functioning man in a marriage, with a healthy functioning wife, that desire should be there. Right? Men are created … With healthy hormonal men, that should be there. So, in that situation where they just have to wait ... It's almost like if it's come from a history of abuse, and now they're here, that's like, man, you made your bed and it might take some time. 

Cass Morrow  21:50  

That’s what I always say.  Patience.  Yeah. Now, if they're communicating with her, there could be something potentially that she could do. I'm not sure. But I don't want my man to do that. I want them to focus on them being their best or leading, right?

Bri Hurlburt  22:06  

And it may take longer when it's in a situation where the safety hasn't been there for so long for her to feel vulnerable enough to give that.  It just might take a lot longer. Where had it been built in there from the beginning, and she's resisting for some reason, I would have more questions. 

Cass Morrow 22:22

Totally different. Yeah. 

Bri Hurlburt 22:25

But I don't know. I don't think remedies right away. What about you, Melissa? You might because you've been doing this so much longer than me.

Melissa Crenshaw  22:30  

Well, what I heard was impatience. And again, that's Nux vomica. So honestly, Cass, you might just get Nux vomica and almost all of your men might need that.

Cass Morrow  22:41  

Just try it out? Just see what happens kind of thing.  

Bri Hurlburt  22:45  

And that's a pretty safe one to take without knowing homeopathy super well. I would feel comfortable telling someone to try it.

Melissa Crenshaw  22:55  

Nux is huge. Nux vomica has a lot of impatience. Bri, just to piggyback off of something you said, where there's a healthy relationship and healthy communication. I do have a few women in my clinic, they just cry in my consultation that their relationship is healthy and their husband is patient and they feel terrible that they want nothing to do with sex. That's hormonal or maybe emotional. Maybe she has a history. If she has a history that we need to address, homeopathy is beautiful at that. And Sepia’s just a really big one. Ignatia is a big one. Pulsatilla, a big one for women. 

Cass, I would love to know, how do you help men? What do you do? How could you help our listeners who are having trouble?

Cass Morrow  23:56  

Simple simple.  They go to my website.  First thing they should do is go through some free training and see if it clicks with them. I always think that's important. I give away a ton. And then from there, I get men into a program.  I no longer just give a course and I no longer just take everyone for a client. I want the right people. I'm disrupting divorce. That's what I believe I'm here on this planet to do is disrupt divorce.  If we can come back from the depths of hell, I don't know what anybody's waiting for.  So they just visit our site morrowmarriage.com and go get your wife.

Melissa Crenshaw 24:29

I love it.

Bri Hurlburt  24:29  

When you say program, you're talking like they meet with you and other men? Accountability.  Is it resources you provide? Counseling.  Coaching.

Cass Morrow  24:40  

Coaching.  Well, I'd say mentorship. I don't like to say think about this. I say go do this. When I take clients on I say, “Are you comfortable? Do you trust me? Do you feel like we're getting along well enough to do what I say because I’m going to ask you to do some weird things.” They'll be like, “Okay, yeah.”

So yeah, I put them through a course.  They learn.  It’s the  light bulbs. Then we just implement in real life, but then we go through real time how we can move things.  For example, a lot of stuff we're talking about today. She might say, “I need boundaries.  You're invading my space. I don't believe you.”  I'll get them to get in her face without invading her space so we can bring them closer.  She can start to see the new him. Things like that. Course.  Mentorship.  And a whole lot of success.

Bri Hurlburt  25:27  

That's really exciting.

Melissa Crenshaw  25:28  

When one person is changing, it's hard for the other person to recognize that they're changing, so you're helping him too.

Bri Hurlburt  25:37  

Now, what would you say? I can think of a couple people in my life, who I'm like, “Man, I wish he would be open to something like this.” And here we are, two women sitting here like, How would I be like, “Hey, you over there,” who I'm not even married to.  You know what I mean? Like, send this to her to send to him? 

Cass Morrow  25:57  

It's really hard. 

Bri Hurlburt  26:01  

Do they have to be like rock bottom here? How do you get to a place where men will be open to what you're offering them? 

Cass Morrow  26:07  

It kind of depends. If you look at our following, we've got about 250,000 followers in a short time, and it's almost all women, like 90% women across the platforms. But what we've learned is 25% of women join Kathryn’s program.  Those would be with husbands who are not on board, not interested. We think a man should lead, but she's the one who’s in so she'll start and she'll try to get him turned around. 

But 75% of the people that join our programs are men joining mine. Our programs run independently, because there's that push-pull in a broken marriage. Somebody’s in, somebody's out. Yeah, of course, I'm working on it. So whoever's in is actually in to get to work. But when he's not on board, wives will share. I mean, a lot of men come from the social media, because wives are saying, “Go, go check it out.” 

A lot of men will see it come hit their feed. Not too many men, unless they disagree, are ever going to comment. The easiest way to understand it is there’s not many people in a relationship run around going, “Yeah, I sexually assaulted my wife last night when I had too much to drink.”  “Ohh, trashed my house again? 50th time, I think.”  “Oh yeah, I screamed at my wife all night long.” “Oh, actually, last week, I forgot to tell you I flipped her out of a bed.”  Like I didn't do that. Nobody's doing that. You know? And that's just like the hard stuff. 

But now people have normalized not having sex. Right? It's become a normal every day, “Yeah. It's what happens after the kids.”  Want a vagina for the rest of your life and then see it starts to, but yet, they don't want to say she doesn't want it. So men don't really comment. They see my social media. They come to me afterwards. What I've done is I've taken screenshots of women saying, “Spot on. I wish my husband heard this. I wouldn't have left my husband if he did that.” It's women, but even the men that are upset and angry are victims. “Oh, you're just pandering to women?” Really? If 220,000 women are saying, “You should do this,” I really think you should probably listen. Honestly. I don't know.  Call me crazy.

Bri Hurlburt  28:10  

So, to clarify too.  Is this really for those extreme cases? 

Cass Morrow 28:17

No.

Bri Hurlburt 28:19 

In the case of people that I know, nobody else would know.  It's only at home. He has not physically hurt her. I mean, yeah, there's been some emotional abuse and things like that but he probably does not see it as a huge problem. 

Cass Morrow  28:41  

They don’t.  See, most people have that same attitude that I was telling you about the gentleman at the gym this morning. We didn't know we were abused. “I don't hurt my wife. My wife knows I would never.”  Or they think trust is affairs.  They have no understanding that trust is well beyond affairs. They don't understand that this can be financial.  It could be spiritual.  Definitely emotional.  Lecturing. Or maybe they don't understand that lecturing means you're just continually … You didn't answer the question. You're repeating yourself over and over again, puking your feelings all over because you have no idea what you're feeling, never mind how to share them. And you're repeating yourself over and over talking about your needs. They don't understand how far this can actually go. 

But to answer your question, no.  There's very few people that I've had that are admittedly narcissist or told they're narcissists, like for real diagnosed, right? Very few people that are super abusive, because I think those people aren't really there yet. It took a lot to get me out of my state of mind thinking it wasn't her. I could take responsibility for me. Most people, it's more like the yelling, the fighting. 

Oh, one of those videos on my website talk about it.  You can watch it. It's an hour long. It's a fight Kathryn recorded in 2016. It was a secret recording. And we found it after we were coaching. We broke it down and just explained some of the lessons that we've learned.  This is the nice guy syndrome coming out. Here's why.  This is narcissism right here. And it was very powerful because it's nowhere near the level of abuse, but it's actually quite normal in a home. Quite normal. 

And so yeah, I hope to get more of those big, bad cases, but mostly it's somebody’s checked out, somebody's having an affair. There's divorce papers.  There's lots of yelling.  Mostly that's what it would be. Or lack of intimacy. Sometimes it's just, “We're best friends.” A girlfriend with a penis. Right? Next level, you know?

Melissa Crenshaw  30:39  

I have another question if it's okay. When you talk about Ryan, what I think of is likely, well, I'm assuming that you were probably either diagnosed or not diagnosed ADHD as a kid.

Cass Morrow  31:02  

Never been diagnosed for it ever however I know enough now and been doing enough of this type of work to know I'm full on, but long before it became a big thing. When I heard about it, I just embraced it. I was like this is how I can work 18-19 hour days.  I learned to channel it and focus. But that is not the case. If you've got something that you can help men with their ADHD, I'm sure you do, that would be helpful. I can't tell you how many men will go. “I can't watch your course. I can't focus.” Come on. There's so many ways, but yeah, sometimes maybe they need something from you. 

Melissa Crenshaw  31:40  

I didn't mean to call you out there and be like, tell your history, but I know you-

Cass Morrow 31:44

Oh, I’m not shy.

Melissa Crenshaw 31:46

What I really do see is these boys in childhood that have ADHD tend to go into that cycle, especially when they're already in the rage and the anger and the disobedience and the defiance as 8 and 10 year olds.  It usually can lead to … Actually it leads to addiction, whether it be drugs, alcohol, yeah, you probably want to talk about that. Drugs, alcohol.

Cass Morrow  32:16  

We should before we end. We should definitely talk about that.

Melissa Crenshaw  32:19  

Yeah. Yeah. Any kind of addiction. I mean, porn, video games, whatever it is, because they can't focus and they can't be still. They're not content. They end up being addicted.

Bri Hurlburt  32:32  

The extra stimulation that they look for. 

Melissa Crenshaw  32:36  

And then they move on into … I don't know what their marriages look like. I've been in practice 20 years so I don't know yet what that process … Because what I'm doing is I'm disrupting ADHD.

Cass Morrow  32:46  

I love it.  I love it.  Yeah, okay. 

Melissa Crenshaw  32:50  

What were you going to say about addiction?

Cass Morrow  32:53  

Well, I teach men how to respond, not react. And part of that is understanding their safe reactions, which is keeping themselves SAFE.  Not protecting their wife.  Not protecting their future. In there, I talk about the S in SAFE is sabotage with coping mechanisms. And it's really … Yeah, that's just how I start the presentation on addiction and how they cope. But yes, if you have help with that, it'd be wonderful because it's so easy to slip into whatever you felt comfortable with for however long, but a lot of it is justified, right? Not me justifying it.  By the man. Right? “Of course I use porn.  She can’t meet my needs.”  “No, of course, I have to work late. I need to.  I’ve got to provide.”  They're literally … It's not always just alcohol and drugs. They'll find whatever they need to.  The more men that I work with, some of it’s that bad.  I mean, I think it's all bad, but like hookers, a new one every month? What? 

Bri Hurlburt  33:52  

There’s lengths they go through to justify behaviors.  It is extreme when you're on the other side, but it's a slow … 

Cass Morrow 34:01

Yeah, snowball.

Bri Hurlburt 34:02

Snowball.  It’s not like you set out, “You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to hire somebody once a month.” No guy says, “I'm going to be a husband who does that.”  It’s just little by little.

Cass Morrow  34:13  

Snowball. 100%. And also, we learn … Alcohol is a really good example. I was a functioning alcoholic for most of my adult life. We could save so much time if we just would have cut the booze out. But because I could get up at four in the morning and work until nine at night and still function and do everything I just didn't think I had a problem.  “Oh, I'm fine. I don't have a problem.” I didn't realize how much I was relying on it to cope with my pain, my traumas, everything that was going on in my life.

Bri Hurlburt  34:50  

Yeah, this is really cool. It's really cool to see … We just had a sermon in church on Sunday that was talking about the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. And Christ came to give life and give it abundantly. And it's really hard to get into that really deep, dark mess with people and believe that they can be a different person. You know, a lot of times people do get divorced and that's it. Like, that's all. It's just that's what happens. And it's I'm not saying if you've been in those situations that that's not … I understand why they get there. But it's very encouraging to hear a story completely opposite of that. This could probably give hope to a lot of people who really think they've gone beyond the line into hopelessness. 

Cass Morrow  35:46  

I hope so.  I've had a lot of business coaching, too, and so I started with just a good marketing book.  If you want more sex with your wife, then … and it worked really well. I went viral in 45 days, so business just took off. But what I learned was I needed to be more real. Alright guys, so the truth is I'm actually a narcissist.  Okay, you should know that I really hurt my wife bad. And I don't exactly remember what the catalyst was for that. It probably was a message in church. I don't recall. But it got me moving and just experimenting, and I was terrified. Putting this online all over the world. What? 

And you know what? It could only have been from God.  It was like an immediate flood of 2500 followers a day going, “Whoa, what is this?  I'm going through that.  Your marriage is our marriage.”  And it got me realizing how many times have you gone to church, “Anybody need prayer? Should we pray on your business? Should we pray on your healing? Anybody have any healing needed in their body?” And everybody's got their hands up. “Anybody want to talk about marriage? Can we pray for your marriage? Come up to the altar,” and it's a freaking ghost town. Come on. We know that's not real. Look around at statistics. But it's crazy to me. 

And so I hope that it gives hope.  I’d give anything to be able to go church hopping every single week, a new church, because I know I could shake them up. But no, you're not the only one.  Somebody in here’s lying.  So I’m glad.  I hope it does. Thank you. 

Melissa Crenshaw  37:21  

I did just want to back up a couple of steps and mentioned that we have an addictions podcast, and I have an addictions course. Anybody out there who is struggling with addictions, and wants help with homeopathy. But again, just like what you said earlier Bri, what you've been talking about Cas, is you got to do the work. We're not talking about just popping homeopathy, even though it's natural and even though it's healthier for your body than allopathic medication.  You still got to do the work. Homeopathy is not magic. It's not going to come and take everything away, just make your life and your marriage beautiful. It's part of the process. And I love what you're doing Cass. That's super exciting. And I do believe that's from the Lord that you guys are disrupting marriage. That's huge. Huge. I'm super excited for what you're doing. Is there anything that you wanted to share with us before we go?

Cass Morrow  38:21  

My book is coming out. It's for people who can't afford my course and coaching. I'm trying to get that ready to go. I try to give away so much for free. My wife, too. We just want the message out there. So if you are interested, Morrow Marriage on social media.  That’s our website as well.  Yeah, go get your life. Go get your wife.  Go live it.

Oh, I will say this, and of course ask God for help.  Pray. But for the love of goodness, God can't help you if you don't do the work. Just like you just mentioned Melissa with everything that you do. People have to get this in their head.  You can ask Him to answer your prayers, but you have to answer His, too.  You know what I mean? 

Melissa Crenshaw 39:02

He's not going to do it all. 

Cass Morrow.39:04

Yeah. I’m just passionate about letting people know this. 

Bri Hurlburt  39:08  

So, Morrow Marriage, M-O-R-R-O-W?

Cass Morrow 39:12

That's correct. 

Bri Hurlburt 39:14

What's the name of your book?

Cass Morrow  39:17  

Oh, I don't know yet. MaybeThe New Man?  

Bri Hurlburt 39:19

Oh, it’s still in the works.  Okay. 

Cass Morrow 39:20

Yeah.  So we got the manuscript.  We're editing right now, but a lot of my men are so enthralled in the work that I've done and the work that they're doing with me that they join me.  They're helping me.  We're like going in circles with the name. On my website, you just put your information in there and I’ll make sure you get a copy.  I'm going to give away so much training with it, too. I want to give these guys an opportunity. So many people … It’s a victimized mindset, right? But we can break out of that because we realize, “Oh my gosh.  This is why I have no money. This is why I don't look the way and feel the way I want to feel and my relationship’s struggling.” We got to break this. We’ve got to break these chains.  Everybody's got opportunity to learn.  

Melissa Crenshaw  40:04  

Love it. Love it. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you being here, sharing your time and your information.  Bri, is there anything else you wanted to say? 

Bri Hurlburt  40:15  

No.  I think I'm good. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. So great to meet you. 

Melissa Crenshaw 40:20

Yes, thank you so much.

Cass Morrow 40:21

Thank you guys.